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EOA Unit 1
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Joined: 23 Aug 2006
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Location: Herts
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 Posted: Wed Jan 10, 2007 4:29 pm Post subject: To Edit a title or add a Warning Label that be the question |
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I have to say I really hate edits in manga. I guess I'm a purest who think that any material should be reproduce how the artist/writer intended. I understand sometimes for stronger titles though.
I know the CMX Tenjou Tenge edits have been some of the worst I remember, but it begs the question. Why is it so hard to shrink wrap & label a strong title than hack it to shreds, and with knowledgable fans out there, expect to insult them by selling it to them. I think CMX made a huge mistake aiming Ten Ten at the wrong age group, when they could have picked up Air Gear, from the same creator Oh Great! and succeeded better.
If other manga edits that have disturbed you, please mention them.
Your thoughts please
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Gawyn
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Joined: 09 Aug 2006
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| Posted: Wed Jan 10, 2007 4:57 pm Post subject: |
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The problem is that, in the US, there are issues with certain bookstores (or maybe all bookstores) being unable/unwilling to stock such strong titles that require it. This may be affected by different states having different rules (banning stores other than adult stores from selling pornographic material or such) and makes the marketing of the manga overall more difficult. Add to this the fact that readers/buyers will not be able to open up/peruse the book before purchase (and even where they are interested may be put off by the potential embarrassment of buying pornographic material) means that many readers will not even consider it.
The publisher is not selling manga to the end consumer but to the stores themselves and these stores are fully aware of the trouble they may have with selling such stock and so are less open to accepting it where they even can.
I am being a bit of a devil's advocate there as I was really annoyed that they altered TenTen the way they did but I do understand the reasons that they did it. I just hope they don't try for Gantz  |
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Toraman
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Joined: 08 Aug 2006
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Location: London
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| Posted: Wed Jan 10, 2007 5:57 pm Post subject: |
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| Gawyn wrote: | | The problem is that, in the US, there are issues with certain bookstores (or maybe all bookstores) being unable/unwilling to stock such strong titles that require it... |
Better yet, there's a title that no one will print, let alone make it to a store! An attempt to publish a manga called Beauty Labyrinth of Razors recently was foiled because they can't find anyone willing to print the thing.
The only way to get it uncut is to buy and download the ebook. Here's the link if you're interested (you need to click the book to see the statement butbe warned as there are a few graphic thumbnails in there!)
http://www.creationbooks.com/frameset.asp?p=f-manga.html
Of course this is the top end of extreme but in comparison, Tenjho Tenge's edits seems pointless... |
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EOA Unit 1
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| Posted: Wed Jan 10, 2007 6:28 pm Post subject: |
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To be honest I think that if it can happen to a cool title like Ten Ten, then no manga is safe.
Perhaps this is the price we as fans pay when manga/anime moves from small hobby/comic stores to mainstream book stores.
Can we really say we want manga/anime to be that popular again? While I accept new fans, I can't say that this is a worthy sacrificial trade off.
Dilution of content to open it up for more mainstream fans and stores is wrong, and will drive more people to seek scans online, thus losing sales.
The only other solution I can think of is to not edit manga so much, age group, shrink wrap it and release 6-8 page preview supliments attached to the each volume for browsing purposes. Publishers should perhaps also make clear what edits have been done, instead of leaving us to guess. They should also make it clear that the material is foreign and in some cases might not adhere to that countries moral taste etc.
The most recent edit I heard of concerns a volume of Full Metal Alchemist with a crucifix scene, and Flame of Recca where nipples have been editted out. Small edits fair enough, but its the priciple that counts.
Here's another question, why do yanks have such a problem with female nipples? I'd really like to know. Is this a catholic thing or what? And why is it nipples are okay in an art gallery painting (which sometimes also tell a story) but not a book targeted towards a certain audience? (same goes for violence too)
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Gawyn
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| Posted: Wed Jan 10, 2007 7:32 pm Post subject: |
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| To be honest, what with the edits to what was a fairly innocuous scene in Fullmetal Alchemist, I was really surprised that Viz bothered to take on O-Parts Hunter... I am sure that will cause issue at some point down the line. |
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Toraman
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| Posted: Wed Jan 10, 2007 7:39 pm Post subject: |
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| EOA Unit 1 wrote: | ...They should also make it clear that the material is foreign and in some cases might not adhere to that countries moral taste etc.
....
Here's another question, why do yanks have such a problem with female nipples? I'd really like to know. Is this a catholic thing or what? And why is it nipples are okay in an art gallery painting (which sometimes also tell a story) but not a book targeted towards a certain audience? (same goes for violence too) |
To say about identifying the cultural differences in manga and then making a personal rant about Americans is a bit contradictory.
But while we're generalising, Americans hate both swearing and sex. It's only extreme violence they understand and can tolerance. (I'd rather be called a bastard to my face as opposed to being shot at myself)
You can't blame the companies as they're just supplying their demand. The online community may be the hardcore fans but they certainly don't dominate the market. (which is something a lot of people on the AnimeonDVD forums have yet to realise) It's why we keeping getting things like 'Manga Force' appear as there are more people that aren't fans than those who are.
I'm not defending anything here, just recognising the situation and that's it's not likely to change any time soon. (In fact the opposite is most likely to happen when people actually start taking notice of some of this stuff that's being put out...) |
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Hazel
Settling In
Joined: 23 Aug 2006
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Location: London
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| Posted: Thu Jan 11, 2007 8:10 am Post subject: |
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Manga edits really annoy and upset me, we wait so long for the translations, then they go and change the words, such as in Love Pistols. I love Dark Horse that gives pages of sounds translation and cultural explanations at the back of the book ^_^, but other companies aren't so thorough.
I think the answer is that if you love manga you really need to learn japanese so you can read it in it's original form (or hope the scanlators are better), because companies will never stop editing stuff to try and get more $$££.  |
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gradian
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| Posted: Thu Jan 11, 2007 11:26 am Post subject: |
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My problem with edits is when you can tell that they have cut or drastacly changed the story line and that all I really get peaved at. As for edits to the images I realy don't mind. but I am interested in why the USA has a problem with wemans nipples. Every Xman weman has theres ok under clotihng but there still quite often made obvouse.
an Idea could be that some of the characters are under the legial age in the US. just an idea but unless we actualy look at the rules the use we'll never really know. |
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botmaster2005
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| Posted: Thu Jan 11, 2007 11:55 am Post subject: |
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I don't mind edits on TV versions and in magazines, but when I pay near full price for something I like it to be un messed with, of course if it's incredibly cheap i don't mind 
unfortunately alot of the censorship in the states isn't properly run, if that film about the MPAA is anything to go off it looks as if alot of age/censorship decisions are made by those goody-two-shoes-lets-blame-tv-instread-of-taking-resposabiltity soccer moms, who aren't exactly qualified for this sort of work
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Damo
Still Alive, but no cake.
Joined: 07 Aug 2006
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Location: Aperture Science Labs
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| Posted: Thu Jan 11, 2007 1:39 pm Post subject: |
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Are you all as miffed with with a title when you find out that it's been edited later down the line, like say you've read vols 1-3 of a series and enjoyed it greatly, then it isn't until vol4 you find out that the first three were infact edited,
Does that change you opinion of a show from liking to disliking purely down to protesting about the edits.
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gradian
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| Posted: Thu Jan 11, 2007 7:15 pm Post subject: |
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| Damo wrote: | Are you all as miffed with with a title when you find out that it's been edited later down the line, like say you've read vols 1-3 of a series and enjoyed it greatly, then it isn't until vol4 you find out that the first three were infact edited,
Does that change you opinion of a show from liking to disliking purely down to protesting about the edits. |
good point
I for one feel ignorance is bliss, if you don't know then you wont miss it but if I find out that a tltle has been cut I find myself wanting to see the original. However I have found that reading the original can lead me to the few that the edited version is actualy better.
Example one I use a film here sorry can't think of a better edited manga yet.
Star war episode one
I first was this as an unfinished film with some graphics missing thanks to a friend and then later saw the prober releass at the cinima. not the unfinised one missed some bit out here and there and I found that I liked the on more I did here that some one re-edited it later and that there is a much better finished one out there.
Example two the other side.
I have read Ah my Goddess for many yeare and did read the original cut version of the TB and found it ok but when I finaly got my hands on the unedited one I found that I really enjoyed AMG far more.
I think for most people that is really comes down to how you first saw or read these titles. in other ward, witch every one you see first is most likly to be you favorite but with manga I find that the true version is usally better. |
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EOA Unit 1
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Joined: 23 Aug 2006
Posts: 31
Location: Herts
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| Posted: Fri Jan 12, 2007 12:30 am Post subject: |
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I guess you too have a point Damo. Graphic edits that are for the sake of it or offending some should be looked at, because they aren't messing with the story.
Its edits that are done that do mess with storyline later in a story that really hurt the reader.
I guess Tokyopop, CMX etc all need to take a look at how Dark Horse do things with manga. From DH we can get GitS: Man Machine Interface manga both cut and uncut copies. With all parties bobbing for my of our money, the quality and attention a work deserves goes out the window.
A good example of this from Viz is Whistle!, the football manga. Viz didn't do their homework on football players and got lots of names and references wrong. While a u.s reader might not care, manga goes outside the u.s and many football/manga fans do.
Perhaps the best thing would be to cut down manga releases a bit to get the quality and focus back.
Hey, I'm not slating yanks for the sake of it but the nipples thing is just crazy, I'd understand them being edited out on males, where they have less use, but on female characters its weird. Seems they can't look at the human body without getting sexual feelings or something.
Weird too because once upon a time fan service was celebrated for vice versa in anime and manga, but now it seems mainstream sensibilities are creeping in (that means lots of yaoi like topless guys are greenlighted, but topless fems nips get the red light).
Is this the beginning of the end of fan service, for male fans?
Perhaps scanmanga and the net actually has its place after all. Keeping things real and unedited, for those that want them.
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botmaster2005
Ninja In Training
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| Posted: Fri Jan 12, 2007 2:52 pm Post subject: |
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| Damo wrote: | Are you all as miffed with with a title when you find out that it's been edited later down the line, like say you've read vols 1-3 of a series and enjoyed it greatly, then it isn't until vol4 you find out that the first three were infact edited,
Does that change you opinion of a show from liking to disliking purely down to protesting about the edits. |
There should be a legal requirement to put a disclaimer on it like "please note, certain edits have been made in order to blah blah blah blah"
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Damo
Still Alive, but no cake.
Joined: 07 Aug 2006
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Location: Aperture Science Labs
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| Posted: Sat Jan 13, 2007 9:46 am Post subject: |
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| botmaster2005 wrote: | | Damo wrote: | Are you all as miffed with with a title when you find out that it's been edited later down the line, like say you've read vols 1-3 of a series and enjoyed it greatly, then it isn't until vol4 you find out that the first three were infact edited,
Does that change you opinion of a show from liking to disliking purely down to protesting about the edits. |
There should be a legal requirement to put a disclaimer on it like "please note, certain edits have been made in order to blah blah blah blah" |
I don't agree with that, there are different laws for different countries, the Americans can't handle nipples while the Uk can, remember Monika rails first visit to Amecon she commented on their being boobies on late night UK TV. If you want the laws the other way round, buy a Japanese R2 hentai DVD, there laws mean that all the "bits" are pixelated out, while the same title in America wont be pixelated out.
So really I can never understand why there is so much fuss surrounding edits, sometimes they've no choice in the matter.
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gradian
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| Posted: Mon Jan 15, 2007 10:44 am Post subject: |
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I think that this comes down to the person who is reading it. If you are offended by some things then graphical edits are ok. My only complaint is when whole chunks get taken out for no aparent reason and you can just tell that there is some thing missing.
I think the reall problem is that there is no world wild accepted standard of censorship and every country is differnt so I agree with Damo if you want your noughty bits the pick up an Japaness R2 DVD. |
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